So the talk from Jay's friends that he tells lies a lot, combined with the story about him messing around and trying to stab a friend of his because the friend said he didn't know what it felt like to be stabbed, and then all the ease with which Jay moves from story to story, then with the prosecution saying he was so helpful, totally brought back thoughts of my ex.

I can see my ex being involved in something like this and reacting the same way. Maybe Jay did see what he saw, but it wasn't Adnan, but someone involved in the drug deals and he got in over his head, and since Adnan wasn't a close friend, was an ex of Hae's, it was easy for Jay to just tell police it was Adnan and not lose any sleep over it.

I'd known my ex2 since we were in grade school together and we were 10. Knew his family since about freshman year in high school, and we dated off an on for years until I got married the first time. Among the lies that I discovered, and these went back to us being around 18:

Was fired from his job - his story: Took home office equipment he was told he could have as it was surplus stuff (worked at Livermore Lab). Actual story: Was fired for stealing government property. Never told me, and we were dating at the time. I found out when he flaked on me for lunch, and I called his work and found out he no longer worked there.

Was supposed to drive me to a soccer game because he wanted to see me play. I didn't need the ride, so was pissed when I couldn't get hold of him, he never picked me up and I ended up being late to the game. What happened? He had to work and just didn't tell me, didn't think it was a big deal.

When we were married, had numerous stories on how he got certain things - stuff for his car came from his dad. Tools came from his brother. Got money from his mom to get his niece a bday present because he knew technology more. Had a $5k road bike that he happened to get a deal on for only $1000 and saved the money for that one.

Truth - Was opening credit in other people's names that were the same as his (he had a very common name), including cash lines of credit. I found a statement for one that was a $20k line of credit - at the time I thought it was just old mail and threw it out. Looking back, knowing what I know now, it makes sense why he was so on edge and pissy when he saw I'd cleaned up that desk.

When we were married, he was fired from his job at Comerica bank - not for stealing people's info, but for basically being totally incompetent. I read all the paperwork he brought home from the job, including all the write ups he had and his termination letter. When I asked him why he was fired, he claimed he didn't know, even when I showed him all the paper, he still was in total denial that that was the reason why he was fired. Made me feel like I was the crazy one.

After we split, I heard from his first wife he had in Texas. He was stationed there as he was in the Air Force. She told me a story of how she caught him doing the same shit I did, and he went after her with a knife, cut her leg, and she ended up locking herself in the bathroom all night. I didn't believe her at first, but over time have totally come to believe this is 100% true. He does not handle being confronted with the the truth well at all. I don't think he came after me when I confronted him because I was an emotionally stronger person than he was, and we were in our hometown that we grew up in. He couldn't isolate me like he did with wife #1. His family never knew why they split up, and he never talked about it. Totally avoided the question, and changed the subject any time it was brought up. No one in his family talks about anything ugly that goes on. Everything is sugar coated, and when we split up, the only person that knew why was his oldest brother. Everyone else believed ex's story that we split because I was dating someone else. I've never kept it quiet. At the time I confronted ex about the identity theft stuff and got his oldest brother involved, brother admitted that his parents could never know about it as it would devastate them.

Ex could sweet talk anyone for a short time. He is still doing it now, bouncing from girlfriend to girlfriend until I'm sure they start seeing the red flags I did but didn't do anything about. He has a dark side and loses his temper fast when confronted, or just goes into complete denial. The kids have just recently told me he would either ignore them or be mean to them when I was gone.

So I see Jay as being that same type of person. As long as the story benefits him, he can say and do anything. Doesn't matter who it hurts. Ex still tells his stories (a mutual friend's parents are close to his parents so I get stories a lot).

If Jay is the same type of person, I can see why Stephanie wants nothing to do with this story or anything, because Jay probably hoodwinked her for years until she finally figured it out. It's why Jay is so concerned about all of this with his current family - he's afraid someone is going to find out the true story, and then he'll lose face with his wife. My ex didn't care about the law, or doing anything illegal, he cared about what his family thought of him, and what other people thought of him. He also couldn't keep track of his lies. He lied so often, it was second nature to him, and lied about stupid shit that didn't mean anything.

Just listening to the whole Jay podcast again, and I totally think it's the same kind of thing with my ex, and like Cosita's ex. Those type of people are pretty capable of anything, and I don't think he murdered Hae, but it was someone he knew and is actually afraid of. Adnan is no threat to him, and not a family member, so it meant nothing to him to name him.

oh, and somehow ex left Texas, still in the air force, but didn't have any repercussions for it. That one made zero sense to me.

We power listened on the way home from Florida, and can I just say, how did my parents deal with long road trips before the internets??? God bless downloadable podcasts, movies and games

I have no idea who did it, but I am 100% certain of two things, one, there was not enough evidence to co I vict Adnan, and two, he was improperly represented. His conviction should be overturned.

I totally agree. So much so that I spelled it all the way out instead of abbreviating or using a smiley.

This is starting to push me to believe Adnan had little to do with the crime, and may be innocent altogether.

I just keep trying to figure out why Jay threw Adnon under the bus. And how he knew where Hai's car was. Those are the things that give him credibility. There are tons of things that reduce his credibility, of course.

Jay only has credibility if you buy into the "Adnan did it" version, and that is dwindling.

Fact is, Jay was involved, and that's the only thing we know for sure. He knows stuff because HE was there. That doesn't prove Adnan was.

Jays should have stayed quiet he looks guiltier and guiltier.

Something that bothered me from the very beginning was Adnan saying that he bought Stephanie a birthday gift and that Jay had not. That would be a bit of an ego blow to a young man. That sticks out to me. I don't think Adnan or Jay killed Hae but I believe Jay does know who killed her. Maybe it was Stephanie. Maybe Steph and Adnan had a thing on the side and Hae found out and threatened to tell Jay. Idk. But I do not think that Hae's murder was premeditated.

Season two is going to be about this case, right?

And the amount of reasonable doubt in this case is insurmountable. How the fuck was he convicted???

New news!

http://observer.com/2015/01/exclusiv...a-key-witness/

I think this one is going to be huge.

I just started watching The Wire. I was excited that they mentioned the body situation in Lincoln Park. http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c..._the_wire.html

That prosecutor may be in deep, deep shit. I can't believe that someone would deliberately lie to a witness, especially one as important as Asia McClain. I assume he did so because he thought he had the right guy and didn't need her to muddy up the waters, but damn.

As Rabia pointed out in her article, they wanted a conviction. They didn't care how they got it, and with Jay's testimony, they believe that 100% and anything that didn't line up with that, they dismissed.

I don't think they've said officially what Season 2 is going to be, but I doubt it's going to be this unless something significant happens with the new motions.

I have a feeling it's going to be the Whitman case that was alluded to, because Adnan's lawyer was also supposed to represent that kid. That's the one where the 15 year old brother is in prison for murdering the 13 year old brother. Parents swear he didn't do it.