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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Seattle Minimum Wage

Failure or success?


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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015, 08:34 PM
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To soon to tell, simple economics models show it will cut jobs, will it happen in reality?

I'm not sure.

Fast Food jobs were teenager part time employment back in the early 80s, not a career living wage type thing.


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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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I think paying a McDonald's burger flipper the same as a starting EMT is bullshit. I have read some businesses in Seattle closed up and that thousands of jobs are gone, mostly in the waitperson field. I am all for having a minimum wage but come the fuck on, you aren't supposed to raise a family or work you entire life as a fry guy or gal. What this will do long term is raise everything up. Cost of living will go up etc, and then the min. wage will no longer be livable again.


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 06:42 PM
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What's the min wage there now? I know Seattle has a pretty high col. What are the state income taxes? ( I know I could google but I'm lazy). Our min wage raised to $9 last year. Up from 8.25 (I think). Our income tax Is 6.25 All those people making 9 didn't get an adjustment either. Next state over is 7.25. No income tax.

I agree fast food jobs are jobs you held thru hs etc. but I'm seeing more and more full time jobs starting at just above min, and that's even if you get 40 hours.

My first full time job I think I made a like 2.50 over min and could still afford my own apt with careful budgeting. No way you could live on your own now making that

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 07:04 AM
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WA does not have state tax.

Also minimum wage was originally meant to be able to live off of, not just for teenagers.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 09:42 AM
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Seattle is currently at $11.00/hr with an increase through 2016 up to $15.00. I think I have the timeframe correct. Min wage jobs are not limited to fast food, ftr.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudin View Post
I think paying a McDonald's burger flipper the same as a starting EMT is bullshit. I have read some businesses in Seattle closed up and that thousands of jobs are gone, mostly in the waitperson field. I am all for having a minimum wage but come the fuck on, you aren't supposed to raise a family or work you entire life as a fry guy or gal. What this will do long term is raise everything up. Cost of living will go up etc, and then the min. wage will no longer be livable again.
You're right, it is bullshit. EMT's should fight to get a higher wage as well. When people say this, their perspective is screwed. Have you guys read the studies that show people would rather not get a raise if it meant someone doing a 'lower" job than them also got a raise that would make the gap between the two less? Instead of advocating for themselves, most people would rather get less and keep a bigger gap. It's crazy. Actually, I think I read an actual article written by an EMT on this issue, I'll come back and post it. Also, Califred is right. Minimum wage IS meant to be a livable wage. If McDonald's etc is only meant to be jobs for teenagers, why are they open overnights and during school hours?

Quote:
No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)
Quote:
By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living. (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 11:23 AM
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This was written by Jens Rushing, a paramedic in New York.


Quote:
Fast food workers in NY just won a $15/hr wage.
I'm a paramedic. My job requires a broad set of skills: interpersonal, medical, and technical skills, as well as the crucial skill of performing under pressure. I often make decisions on my own, in seconds, under chaotic circumstances, that impact people's health and lives. I make $15/hr.

And these burger flippers think they deserve as much as me?

Good for them.

Look, if any job is going to take up someone's life, it deserves a living wage. If a job exists and you have to hire someone to do it, they deserve a living wage. End of story. There's a lot of talk going around my workplace along the lines of, "These guys with no education and no skills think they deserve as much as us? Fuck those guys." And elsewhere on FB: "I'm a licensed electrician, I make $13/hr, fuck these burger flippers."

And that's exactly what the bosses want! They want us fighting over who has the bigger pile of crumbs so we don't realize they made off with almost the whole damn cake. Why are you angry about fast food workers making two bucks more an hour when your CEO makes four hundred TIMES what you do? It's in the bosses' interests to keep your anger directed downward, at the poor people who are just trying to get by, like you, rather than at the rich assholes who consume almost everything we produce and give next to nothing for it.

My company, as they're so fond of telling us in boosterist emails, cleared 1.3 billion dollars last year. They expect guys supporting families on 26-27k/year to applaud that. And that's to say nothing of the techs and janitors and cashiers and bed pushers who make even less than us, but are as absolutely crucial to making a hospital work as the fucking CEO or the neurosurgeons. Can they pay us more? Absolutely. But why would they? No one's making them.

The workers in NY made them. They fought for and won a living wage. So how incredibly petty and counterproductive is it to fuss that their pile of crumbs is bigger than ours? Put that energy elsewhere. Organize. Fight. Win.

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Our entire economy is a fucking joke. The minimum wage was originally designed when we had a country full of manufacturing jobs. Those jobs are long gone. They don't exist. You can't compare what was intended to support someone that would spend their entire working life creating windows or shoes as a true craftsperson with a skill set to someone that dips fries in oil and waits for a timer to ring. This isn't the same world.


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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And Unions are what fixed that problem. Unions and picket lines. Not a bunch of whiny pricks who make fries.


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 12:01 PM
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Stupid unions and their getting us things like "weekends" and "the end to child labor"! And now they want people to be able to afford to live on the money they make at their jobs! JEEBUS WHAT NEXT?
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-17-2015, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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I am pro union. People need to demand better working environments. This current generation of whiners does nothing but bitch and wait for the democratic party to bail them out. Unions used to be a blend of all religions and political parties. If you think upping the pay for every single job to 15 bucks an hour is going to fix things you really don't understand why we are in this mess in the first place.


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 06:30 AM
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I think you are the one that doesn't really understand why we are in a mess to begin with. Thinking that the minimum wage being raised will lead to higher costs and cost of living is grossly oversimplifying and incorrect. There is a ton of nuances that go on, which is why macroeconomics is it's own field of study. The minimum wage would need to be around $11 per hour to be equal in buying power to the minimum wage in the 1960's. Your underlying hostility towards "burger flippers" is disturbing as well. I wish you'd spend even just one week "dipping fries in oil and waiting for a timer to ring" and report back your thoughts on the job then. I know you're going to respond that you used to do this and that being a single mom in the 70's or whatever, but you're completely out of touch with the job world currently.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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You don't understand that in a country that allows corporations to pay basically no taxes and import crap from China that they sure as fuck are going to raise the cost of said products because they can the minute they have to pay a "livable wage". This is like putting a bandaid on a stab wound.


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 04:27 PM
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Then by all means, take it out on the people who are trying to earn a living wage. Keeping a large portion of society below the poverty level while the rich get richer will have catastrophic consequences. Great Depression ring a bell? There is more to the raise the minimum wage movement than giving some 17 year old "burger flipper" $15 an hour. Contrary to popular belief.


And Julie said "Futz", "Futz" said Julie.
"Futz around until my return."
The definition of "futz" was something we had yet to learn,
But we tried to do it anyway, anyway,
'Cause Julie, we'll do anything you say.


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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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You are comparing this to the great depression? Really? Did you ever talk to elderly family or anyone that maybe remembers the great depression? Because I did and this ain't it. Click here to enlarge


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 05:02 PM
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Oh please. No I am not comparing this to the great depression. I am talking about uneven distribution of wealth and the consequences. You do know that was a major factor in what caused the great depression, right?


And Julie said "Futz", "Futz" said Julie.
"Futz around until my return."
The definition of "futz" was something we had yet to learn,
But we tried to do it anyway, anyway,
'Cause Julie, we'll do anything you say.


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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-18-2015, 10:18 PM
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(without reading the responses)

DH was telling me that he read that (how's THAT for 3rd hand news, eh??) they were considering going to kiosks @ McDonald's. This really doesn't pertain necessarily to Seattle, or the raise of min. wage, but it surely makes it hard to bitch out the guy behind the counter when your order is wrong, when the guy behind the counter is YOU. Click here to enlarge

I did drive by one of the pizza places a few days ago, and where once stood a person holding a sign, and waiving and what not, advertising the pizza place, now stands just a regular rocking sign with an advertisement on it. And I immediately thought "Well, there went someone's kid equal to Venus' out of a job."
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Oh please. No I am not comparing this to the great depression. I am talking about uneven distribution of wealth and the consequences. You do know that was a major factor in what caused the great depression, right?
Well then since you ARE comparing it to the great depression, what got us out of the Great Depression? And I am talking long term. The New Deal worked for a bit but weren't we right back to high unemployment after? We have got to find a way to change the ridiculous financial structure of this country without using a war to boost the economy. Perhaps we should be fighting for corporations to be taxed highly for each job they send out of the country and imported goods should be taxed too. Raising the min. wage does nothing if we still let the corporations run the show.


“I don’t know why we don’t create some sort of system where we could train [Syrian refugees] to then go back to their own country and then fight for that country. Doesn’t somebody have to stay in the Middle East and make the Middle East a better place to live?”

Bill Maher
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 07:33 PM
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What got us out of the great depression? You don't even know what got us into it so I am not going to go into how we got out of it.


And Julie said "Futz", "Futz" said Julie.
"Futz around until my return."
The definition of "futz" was something we had yet to learn,
But we tried to do it anyway, anyway,
'Cause Julie, we'll do anything you say.


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